tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post9079927289695731872..comments2024-03-24T00:19:48.310-07:00Comments on Delta Vector: Game Design #62: What Should the Commander Know?evilleMonkeighhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11998198938697175335noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-29132227349953217362016-12-12T15:25:42.782-08:002016-12-12T15:25:42.782-08:00Brilliant post.
This really gets to the heart of d...Brilliant post.<br />This really gets to the heart of designing a game for the player.<br /><br />A good game lets the player be the general (or colonel, or sergeant), and requires a bit of measurement, moving and combat rolling.<br /><br />Many poor games force the player to be the general, 3 captains, 15 sergeants, and the entire quatermaster corps simultaneously.<br />Too much information deflects the player from planning and implementing the mission.SteveHolmes11https://www.blogger.com/profile/17392212343858957364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-77607182571227420202016-02-10T21:50:15.951-08:002016-02-10T21:50:15.951-08:00https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/delta-vect...https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/delta-vector7 <br /><br />^ google group link. evilleMonkeighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11998198938697175335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-5000117210890841362016-02-10T21:49:38.195-08:002016-02-10T21:49:38.195-08:00Sure. Also, there is a google group (link to right...Sure. Also, there is a google group (link to right) where people often discuss rules, ideas etc which you're welcome to join.<br /><br />You're welcome to contact me on maj_lovejoy ....at.... hotmail.com<br /><br />I don't tend to mark it on the site as I dislike receiving penis enlargement ads or Nigerian get-rich-quick schemes....evilleMonkeighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11998198938697175335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-47805086035498887342016-02-10T20:21:53.300-08:002016-02-10T20:21:53.300-08:00Hey - I ran into your blog while puttering around ...Hey - I ran into your blog while puttering around the internet, and have spent a little while now perusing your list of game design articles. Well done, sir.<br /><br />I was wondering if you might be willing to take a look at a war game that I've been working on for a little while now? I've been looking for some feedback on it. If so, I'm currently packing the rules into a web site at nullstrike.com (it's also a WIP thing) <br /><br />(I tried to email you, but I wasn't able to find an address on here)watchwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12795547894902828445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-2392644603050830882016-01-09T13:00:00.904-08:002016-01-09T13:00:00.904-08:00Would be cool to have the damage chart results wor...Would be cool to have the damage chart results worded to read like a damage report to the commander.Cyclopeushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02820371456654359069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-71579460380128747662016-01-07T15:47:11.108-08:002016-01-07T15:47:11.108-08:00"For example, a commander may issue an order ..."For example, a commander may issue an order for a squad to move and engage X target, but it is currently engaged with Y target and is not able to comply with the commanders order. "<br /><br />I think the interesting point is that most games have "suppression" which hampers their responding (i.e. can't move, reduces fire or something) but not many have them "unwilling" or "too busy" which could be under favourable circumstances i.e. THEY are fine, and are busy suppressing that German squad across the street but the platoon commander wants them to pull back NOW. Having a "delayed" response to orders even under good circumstances might be interesting, though tracking it adds yet more tokens.... evilleMonkeighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11998198938697175335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-80263854077502589792016-01-07T15:43:47.067-08:002016-01-07T15:43:47.067-08:00Get outta my head!
Yesterday I was designing a s...Get outta my head! <br /><br />Yesterday I was designing a ship data card (in glorious MS Word+paint splendour)and was deciding what should go on it, and what should be a token/marker.<br /><br />I decided guns, hull/speed and criticals like rudder and bridge hits should remain on the card (not necessarily to be shared) while fires/explosions and flooding/sinking would be markers as they would be obvious to everyone....evilleMonkeighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11998198938697175335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-19904479877808745052016-01-07T14:57:41.711-08:002016-01-07T14:57:41.711-08:00Traditionally, a commander commands one level down...Traditionally, a commander commands one level down but sees resolution two levels down. for example a corps commander will directly command divisions, but be aware of what his divisions' brigades are doing. <br /><br />At a lower level, if a battalion level game is using any units smaller than a platoon to resolve combat, then it will probably slow down too much.<br /><br />Regards, Chris.Chris Kemphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15784847480097649252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-31438893113715994552016-01-07T14:49:42.716-08:002016-01-07T14:49:42.716-08:00"For example, a commander may issue an order ..."For example, a commander may issue an order for a squad to move and engage X target, but it is currently engaged with Y target and is not able to comply with the commanders order. "<br /><br />Or may not understand, or may not be willing. This is where training and command abilities need to be incorporated into the C2 system.Paul O'Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08611720164170399684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-67587627182598911962016-01-07T14:48:39.930-08:002016-01-07T14:48:39.930-08:00I should add that one of the most blatant failures...I should add that one of the most blatant failures of most games in adding too much detail is providing details of combat. Many, many times throughout history Commanders have made decisions based on incorrect estimates of damage/casualties inflicted. <br /><br />I know your Aeronef rules are designed for fun between friends - perhaps then, you could mark your damage results with an asterix or symbol to denote which ones you have to tell your opponent about, otherwise its kept secret. Decisions are thus made on guesses not known information. For example, the enemy can then only tell that a turret was knocked out when it stops training and doesn't fire next turn, but would know immediately if the magazine exploded.Paul O'Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08611720164170399684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-26539691109136588522016-01-07T08:36:00.480-08:002016-01-07T08:36:00.480-08:00Interesting read. I always thought modern naval c...Interesting read. I always thought modern naval combat in space might be fun. I find modern naval combat boring because the low movement:high shoot makes maneuver snail-like on the table (at least the games I've played in). A bit of sci fi handwavium might speed things up....<br /><br />Perhaps 2300AD aimed for this, but I always regarded it more as sub warfare. evilleMonkeighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11998198938697175335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-56674279860083700902016-01-07T08:33:46.311-08:002016-01-07T08:33:46.311-08:00I think a game can have complex decisions (lots of...I think a game can have complex decisions (lots of decision points) whilst retaining simple mechanisms.<br /><br />Sadly, it's difficult to do. Designers (and players!) tend to identify "complex, deep game" with "complex, detailed mechanisms"evilleMonkeighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11998198938697175335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-61081677833582330882016-01-07T07:50:49.803-08:002016-01-07T07:50:49.803-08:00A well thought out blog post. I've recently f...A well thought out blog post. I've recently found your blog and have enjoyed reading through your posts. I'm a fan of simple over complex most of the time, but I do occasionally enjoy more complex games.<br /><br />I'm no historian or military taction, but I think the limited information that a commander has leads to some of the failures in the battle. For example, a commander may issue an order for a squad to move and engage X target, but it is currently engaged with Y target and is not able to comply with the commanders order. <br /><br />I see this concept being tied into the command roll in some way.sean geweckehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10617097417699356397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-14714649344595491112016-01-07T07:46:36.817-08:002016-01-07T07:46:36.817-08:00I think it depends on what is relevant to the game...I think it depends on what is relevant to the game. If your game is about making command decisions, then you want the player's decisions to match that scope. In the latest version of my Titanomachia game (v9) the player makes the command decisions, but the activation of crew systems is used primarily for damage control, and secondarily to improve the effect of co-activated systems. Nurglitchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03333941626425462180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-51544262105318691652016-01-07T05:37:48.645-08:002016-01-07T05:37:48.645-08:00Real life experience: in a modern naval task group...Real life experience: in a modern naval task group (half a dozen frigate/destroyers, one high value unit - tanker or amphibious warfare ship and a couple or air assets - helos with possibly an MPA), the CTG and his principal warfare (AAW, ASuW and ASW) commanders (which are usually on different three different ships, to ensure each PWC has the best ship for his job - mainly the AAWC needs to be on the destroyer with the best air defence radar and data transmission architecture - no ship concentrates all C&C function and confusion is mitigated in case one of those ships is neutralized) reports flowing from individual ships are: <br />- "precious" ammo (SSM, long range SAM): exact amount remaining after each expenditure<br />- "common" ammo (short range SAM, gun, CIWS): upon reaching 50% and 25% (and 0% which is reported as a capability loss, see hereunder)<br />- Damages are reported to the impacted PWC (sometimes all three of them) in terms of capabilities lost or degraded (e.g. "max speed 12", "helicopter deck fouled", "hull sonar passive only") with for each limitation a estimated time back online ("ETBOL") at which the capability should be available again... The exact cause isn't usually reported (but later in the after action reports) except when a particularly micro-managing CTG ask too many questions (which he shouldn't when missiles are flying, or about to).<br />- Similarly, casualties aren't usualy reported except when they have a direct impact on the group. I.e. half a dozen sailors might not be mentioned at all (except maybe as a fractional reduction of the ships DC capacity) while the helo pilot breaking his foot while climbing a ladder will (the whole helicopter capability his lost), similarly a casualty requiring a urgent CASEVAC or MEDEVAC will (the ship might need to leave the task group, some helo might be used for the evac instead of being available for ASW or ASuW or at the very least an external air asset might fly in and out impacting AAW operations)Trojan Pointshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01566215177738347634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-78351149937245685582016-01-07T05:25:42.420-08:002016-01-07T05:25:42.420-08:00"BUT, like all rules, this exists to be broke..."BUT, like all rules, this exists to be broken. Just focusing on this eliminates some of the 'cinematic action' that makes gaming (and making models) so much fun."<br /><br />Agreed.<br /><br />In the Aeronef example, I mark off individual turrets despite it being a squadron+ level game... ...because the weird pre-dreadnaught arcs just need to be acknowledged somehow as opposed to the conventional WW2 centreline turrets....evilleMonkeighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11998198938697175335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-51024463630653978862016-01-07T03:20:11.361-08:002016-01-07T03:20:11.361-08:00I consider that what commanders need to know are c...I consider that what commanders need to know are capabilities, not hitboxes. <br />For a ship commander (noting your Aeronef starting point) we are talking weapons, movement, position and hull integrity. There may also be occasions where he needs to understand a level below that because it is critical impacting the primary capability (e.g. rudder for mobility, an inoperative turret for firepower). That said, you also want to have sufficient detail to reflect different design specifics and not make everything too generic.<br /><br />On a land front the same line of thought applies - Platoon commanders want to know where their manoeuvre units are and how their key weapons (MGs, Anti-Armour) are being employed. Upwards, they want to know where the other Pls are, what they are doing, and what key Company assets are doing.<br /><br />BUT, like all rules, this exists to be broken. Just focusing on this eliminates some of the 'cinematic action' that makes gaming (and making models) so much fun. The improbable must still be possible, the probable must still be able to fail. These are the makings of epic stories and actionsPaul O'Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08611720164170399684noreply@blogger.com