tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post4715807048318571226..comments2024-03-24T00:19:48.310-07:00Comments on Delta Vector: Games Design #33. Influences on WargamesevilleMonkeighhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11998198938697175335noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-8287787174351314292018-02-02T09:19:43.148-08:002018-02-02T09:19:43.148-08:00My Apologies, It's been over a year and I'...My Apologies, It's been over a year and I've only just returned to this thread.<br /><br />I'll take a look at that forum right away.<br /><br />During the past year a friend has rekindled my interest in large battle wargames, and also (Something new for me) - Quirky non-traditional RPGs.<br /><br />One sport game is complete, the other remains under development.<br />So I hope I'll have some useful imput.SteveHolmes11https://www.blogger.com/profile/17392212343858957364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-81250509789921618572016-12-13T06:47:03.155-08:002016-12-13T06:47:03.155-08:00If you still dabble, check out
https://groups.goog...If you still dabble, check out<br />https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/delta-vector7<br /><br />There's always playtest rules and ideas that could do with input...evilleMonkeighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11998198938697175335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-28078148041727923162016-12-13T04:30:42.328-08:002016-12-13T04:30:42.328-08:00I've played mostly historicals, but now focus ...I've played mostly historicals, but now focus on 3 skirmish systems with a regular group: Frostgrave, Song Of ..., Pulp Alley.<br /><br />I've pretty much given up on inventing battle rules, though I have a couple of sport related boardgames under development (The phase that never ends).<br /><br />I read this post with horror as I recognised myself in 5 or more of the design styles.<br />I shall ask the nurse to increase my medication.SteveHolmes11https://www.blogger.com/profile/17392212343858957364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-45160410172485048122015-03-23T06:48:11.811-07:002015-03-23T06:48:11.811-07:00define support (there is an interesting conversati...define support (there is an interesting conversation on Lead Adventure on that). I assume you mean support = putting out army books to have players spending more... or creating constantly changing environments to have player buying more stuff and revising their lists (I think on this blog the problem has been highlighted in the past). <br /><br />I agree that some rules are this way and are conceived to be this way (again copying from role models). One has also to define what is a commercially viable product. It is a product designed to make you filthy rich or at least to support you for an indefinite period of time or something you put out because you think it is valid and can even out expenses? In the former category I would put FoW, WH, and even Bolt Action, but in the latter a lot of rules fall neatly in, including a lot of the latest Osprey offers.Arrigo "the Crazy"https://www.blogger.com/profile/14011138146055102156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-49059996724733261542015-03-20T09:23:14.127-07:002015-03-20T09:23:14.127-07:00There's also other constraints, like trying to...There's also other constraints, like trying to build a commercially viable product, and figuring out how to monetize those game rules. You know, for support...Nurglitchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03333941626425462180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-31520454130352521342015-03-18T10:49:11.271-07:002015-03-18T10:49:11.271-07:00I think it is a good quote. There is also the fact...I think it is a good quote. There is also the fact that, while there are many ways to skin a cat... there are a definite number of them not an infinite one.<br /><br />I think that right now the market tend to be over-saturated by rules that in the end are very similar to certain "role-models". Well sometime it is good (often rules need improvements and similar sets at time build up and improve their role models), but it also lead to over-evolution. A lot of the problem is that few designers set out with the idea: "I want to create this or that world in a plausible and entertaining way (historical, fantasy, or sci-fi)" but rather "this mechanic looks cool".Arrigo "the Crazy"https://www.blogger.com/profile/14011138146055102156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-124326181306763782015-03-18T09:47:05.078-07:002015-03-18T09:47:05.078-07:00I was working on re-jigging Adeptus Titanicus as a...I was working on re-jigging Adeptus Titanicus as a lark, and eventually it morphed into a board game rather than a war-game, mainly because there's only so many interesting ways of playing a wargame. The genre is pretty specific, and I think that's why so many people run into that "Re-invent the Warhammer" wall. <br /><br />I think it's also because so many people start from the perspective of simulating something, rather than finding out what's game-able about conflict, so you end up making sets of mechanics for people to count rivets in their own games, rather than starting with important things like terrain, objectives, and choices.Nurglitchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03333941626425462180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-38505542885347952612015-03-18T08:45:39.101-07:002015-03-18T08:45:39.101-07:00A significant part of Slammer's motivation was...A significant part of Slammer's motivation was reaction against 40K and only using the latest authorised figures. We play tested it on Space Hulk corridors with assorted 15/20mm figures, mainly Micro Machines Imperial Storm Troopers and Stan Johansen lizardmen and any aliens figures we could get our hands on. The idea was to get some figures then work out their stats. If one side was losing too heavily, another player could drop in with a squad of reinforcements. I have a tendency to make up a ruling on the spot for any odd situation and I'm not always consistent! Some bits got posted on the support group, then added into the game without adequate testing because I thought they were an interesting idea and wanted to see how they worked. So it's rather a patchwork.Chris Nicolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00694758635946306650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-87851170327120175152015-03-16T17:00:00.773-07:002015-03-16T17:00:00.773-07:00"Every gamer that fails to understand 40K is ..."Every gamer that fails to understand 40K is doomed to reinvent 40K..poorly" (mangled from an old quote about Unix :) )Weaselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05873440251698488032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-14769507971325409552015-03-16T16:58:59.358-07:002015-03-16T16:58:59.358-07:00I can definitely see a lot of "British Method...I can definitely see a lot of "British Method" in Slammer. Not in a bad way, mind you but it has some of that same "get some tea, get some figures, let's play a game" sort of approach.Weaselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05873440251698488032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-16712533705843763882015-03-16T16:57:39.188-07:002015-03-16T16:57:39.188-07:00I'd say a mix of "Results oriented" ...I'd say a mix of "Results oriented" and "Stats are evil" :-)<br />As a person, I definitely carry over the Unreformed RPGer, because that's my foundation as a gamer (Those old Fighting Fantasy gamebooks as well).<br /><br />No Stars in Sight is my lovesong to "Vietnam in space".Weaselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05873440251698488032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-2249975643499609852015-03-16T10:41:50.210-07:002015-03-16T10:41:50.210-07:00Interesting, very interesting...
I would have to s...Interesting, very interesting...<br />I would have to say that I and Slammer probably fall into the British Method and Hard SF (like Stargrunt) camps. Having said that I can't recall ever playing Stargrunt but I did go through a phase of reading and/or acquiring any rule sets I could find. Chris Nicolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00694758635946306650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-77128913094858395962015-03-16T03:25:25.166-07:002015-03-16T03:25:25.166-07:00Asking both.Asking both.Omer Golan-Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09242085820257230639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-92031293227125070792015-03-16T02:14:15.119-07:002015-03-16T02:14:15.119-07:00Are you asking me or Ivan? I think I'll pass t...Are you asking me or Ivan? I think I'll pass the question along to him :-)evilleMonkeighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11998198938697175335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-980389678970864752015-03-16T00:45:33.523-07:002015-03-16T00:45:33.523-07:00Where do FiveCore and No End/Stars In Sight fit in...Where do FiveCore and No End/Stars In Sight fit into all this?Omer Golan-Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09242085820257230639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-58400706197567527712015-03-15T10:09:17.304-07:002015-03-15T10:09:17.304-07:00On the money with most of these, and it's kind...On the money with most of these, and it's kind of fun to go through and see which games fall into which category. <br />I certainly see myself in a few of them :-)<br /><br />I'd add in "The American" (as a counterpart to the British) - Tournament style army lists, exclusive line of miniatures, written with the assumption that it'll catch on and become a big competitive game even though it probably won't be. Weaselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05873440251698488032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-74833573136927380262015-03-15T09:12:04.114-07:002015-03-15T09:12:04.114-07:00Well... it is Too fat lardies but... considering t...Well... it is Too fat lardies but... considering that they recent offerings are extremely well researched, not at all cobbled together, and certainly not inconsistent, maybe he was referencing to something else...<br /><br />Said that I think there is a great deal of truth in this post. I have only some minor qualms... in WW2 big ships were not slow or lumbering (Yamato 27 knots full speed, her turning circle smaller than the one of a Fletcher destroyer). It is just a reflection of:<br /><br />a) myth and reuse<br />b) tactical turning radius (the radius of suggested turning for tactical maneuver that included other thing, more often than not was based on destroyers to allow for them to keep their position in a formation with larger ships)<br /><br />But I think a lot of influences are based on what we are trying to do. For example if you, like me, envision (due to a combination off education, experience, personal ideas, exposure to British Army gibberish...) that until the basic relationship between fire and protection will stay the same, science fiction has to be similar to modern platoon/company warfare. Fire is the enabler of maneuver and everything flows from this. Aliens... well aliens are supposed to operate in the same physical world and tactical paradigms. To be honest, if you want to do platoon or company actions even in a science fantasy setting you tend to rely on a contemporary setting and paradigm because if indeed the aliens are so powerful and different probably things will change and you will indeed need a different game approach. If, let's say, the "Gamebreaker" from planet WG have extremely powerful psionic abilities that made our firepower useless what is the point to do a conventional platoon action against them? We humans need to develop counters... or we are out of the game...<br /><br />I think a lot of rule writers do not even ask themselves these basic questions and simply go all the way with a game mechanics they like or they think it will be useful (or will sell figures). I do not think it is a coincidence that all rulesets supported by large (largish) figure producers tend to be more or less iteration of the 40k soup. Arrigo "the Crazy"https://www.blogger.com/profile/14011138146055102156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8394074963215462822.post-14406232792750602182015-03-14T22:48:30.311-07:002015-03-14T22:48:30.311-07:00What you call "the British method" is th...What you call "the British method" is the one thing that stands out for me about <i>Battlefleet Gothic</i> (but no other GW game I know, and they're British). It has few different weapons, yet they all operate by special rules and/or break standard ones.<br /><br />(And a tiny nit: it's "<b>Too</b> Fat Lardies", not "Two".)Jeff Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02505316906423031421noreply@blogger.com