Ok, I was bored on a car trip again, and I'm rehashing my space/drift mechanics for my homebrew space game.
I had a system with counters showing where ships would "drift" to - a kinda projected location which was simple and precise - but with 6 or so ships per side, a dozen counters on the table got messy.
So now I'm trying to remove the markers. I'm trying to abstract it a little so there are some "speeds" or "velocities" that are a factor of thrust. I.e. T0 = ship is stationary, can move thrust in any direction, T1 = ship should move 1xthrust in direction of travel, then can apply thrust to move from there. T2 = ship moves 2x thrust in direction of travel, then can use thrust to change final location. I can show this by a little directional triangle with a velocity number on it, touching the ships' base.*
Perhaps a napkin sketch will help:
I used 4" as a standard thrust (say a cruiser); with perhaps 3" for a capital ship or 5" for a faster vessel. The precise number isn't really important at this stage - it's just to align to a 28mm infantry 4" walk/8" run/12" sprint so it's easy for me to visualize.
Ships can pivot on bases. The ship model itself shows the direction the ship is facing for weapons/shield directions etc. But a triangle next to the base shows the direction of drift. (I'll probably label the triangles 1, 2, 3 etc to denote the "velocity" i.e. "thrust x ").
A turn sequence will look something like this:
^A: You start out with an imaginary "drift point" - where you will move to if you just let the ship drift. This is determined by a directional triangle against the base, which also shows how fast velocity is. In the example, the velocity shown on the direction triangle is 1; aka 1 x thrust (which is, say 4" in the previous example)
^B. You can then move the actual destination to a new spot - up to thrust (in inches) from the original drift point.
^C. Place a directional triangle to mark the new drift point, facing away from the original position. (This drift is mostly independent of the actual spaceship's facing). A new drift path has been established - this is the actual route the ship will take across the table.
^D. Now slide the ship base from the old location up to/touching the new drift point (aka the directional triangle you just put down in step C.)
This will be the most time consuming bit if I allow reaction fire which was my original design as the ship pauses on its path to exchange fire with other ships in range.
^E. Once you arrive you are done. Begin at "A" next turn.
It sounds complicated but the only thing that is quite time consuming is "D" as the ship may have to interact/react/fire at enemies as it moves along its path. So reaction mechanics will be the real time consuming bit.
Also at "D" there is a question of facing - what way does the ship face as it moves along its path? Again, if there are reactions this is very important during the movement.
My current idea for ship facing is this. If a ship moves its full thrust away from its original drift point in step B i.e. a 4" thrust ship moved to new drift point 4" away - then it must face directly away from its old drift point.
Perhaps if a ship moves less than its full thrust - say 2", or 3" (maybe depending on how bulky the ship is) it may face any direction as it uses its excess thrust to pivot around quickly.
*Ok, let's back up to the velocity thing. Velocity is denoted by a directional triangle with a number on it - 1,2 or 3. If it is 3, it is 3x the max thrust of the ship. So a 4" thrust ship moving at "2" would move 4"x2 = 8". Or that's where it will drift to if no thrust is applied - in the direction of the directional triangle.
So how do the ships change between these velocities? By moving full thrust further along the direction of travel, you can increase to the higher velocity. By moving full thrust back towards the direction of travel you can slow down to the lower velocity. Hmm maybe I need my napkin again:
#1. I keep wondering if I've missed something and there's a simpler way to do this. I want
a) minimal tokens (so far, just a small triangle with a number on it, next to the base)
b) a sense of "drift" where ships are predictable (but higher thrust allows you to move further from that predicted location)
c) ability for a ship to face one way and drift another.
#2. Probably my biggest takeaway was thinking about how to do reactions/firing etc. My original manifesto called for "reaction mechanics" so ships couldn't just teleport past each other. But unless I limit these they will eat up a lot of time (in stage D). If a single ship moves past 2-3 opponents that's a lot of shooting/damage to resolve in a single turn, which means a single wrong move would not only be slow to resolve, but may wipe out a ship fast.
Note: I may change things here rather than clarifying/correcting myself in comments I may use italics and brackets near the relevant bit in this OP rather than respond in comments...
I think your idea is very clever and elegant. Below are some of my quick and uninformed comments.
ReplyDeleteLeave the starting thrust direction counter there until all reactive fire is completed so you can just move the ship to it final destination and use an imaginary line between the start and end points to calculate range for reaction fire.
On facing during changes of thrust (assuming the engines are at the rear of the ship).
1) If the engine will fire the entirety of the move (a steady acceleration) then facing would need to be along the thrust line.
2) if the engine just needs to fire for a short period (like the x second burns spaceships do now) then facing could be in any direction as the reaction thrusters on the sides of the ship would reorientate it after the engine firing time.
So what sort of engine do you want to have? I would choose one that makes the game easier (but then I am lazy 😂)
Of course you could make it more complicated, the burn is in the first inch or two of movement and subsequent to that the ship can change facing. Changes of facing could then occur multiple times in a move... e.g. to the left when passing an asteroid to present shields to the gun there and to the right after you have moved out of range/sight to present shields to an enemy ship. (alternatively make it simple by assuming shields are always up to an attacker)
Hopefully I have not misunderstood anything but that's a 5+ on a D6. 😁
Thanks Ben
DeleteYes I do intend to leave the starting directional counter until all is done, as I need two counters anyway (the ship may change up or down a level of velocity i.e. from tx1 to tx2 etc)
Part D is where 90% of edge cases are and is also most time consuming.
My current thought is:
1) if the ship is using full thrust for movement, then it faces a set direction all move (and has the same, compulsory facing at the end of the move as well).
I.e. Full thrust used = fixed ship facing all turn.
2) if the ship uses less than full thrust (-1" less for agile ship, -2" less for normal ship) it can pivot and face any direction during its drift and can end facing any direction regardless of the vector.
I.e. Spare thrust = ship can face any way at the end of the turn... ...but its DURING the turn the problems lie.
Reactions are the hidden issue I think. I mean, if as per 2) a ship faces one way to shoot at one ship, can it then instantly spin and face another ship and shoot the opposite way*?
*I don't like this as it 'feels' wrong and also doesn't allow for blind spots (I also use directional shields - front and rear 180) which add a lot of tactics.
I may need to severely limit reactions - it could fix most of the issues but it kinda messes with a core design tenet.
-eM
2) does make it more complicated.
DeletePerhaps allow one change of facing for each 1" of thrust not used*?
And/or only one change of facing per inch of movement. So no spinning in place.
This adds some player decisions regarding threats and target opportunities.
I do like your idea though. Great for small # of ships.
* for an agile ship and one change per 2" of thrust not used for a normal ship.
Yeah your ideas make sense. Might even limit it further to only spins at beginning, midpoint and end of the drift.
DeleteMy aim is a task group of ~6 ships per side. Kinda like the modern naval groups where you get a big ship, 2-4 destroyers/asw frigates, and a specialist tanker/etc. (Hmm I'll have to shoot Paul of the Man Cave an email as he's the resident naval guru)
Recording is simple yes/no; front or rear shields are either up or down, ready ammo is either yes/no, and capacitor (spare energy for cool things aka mana) is also yes/no. There is 4 levels of damage on ANY ship so no 100 hitboxes.
Basically, I want each ship to be about as complicated as a Warmachine warjack..
-eM
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteInitial, only-one-cup-of-coffee thought = maybe a look at my penguin stands could trigger a 'how to' moment? [edit]The correct link this time... https://brawlfactory.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/penguins-notes-and-stuff.pdf
ReplyDeleteI made a game based on the old Dark Orbit computer game (not the MMO) using a hex map so velocity could only be in 6 directions. The drift was actually way simpler to manage than I had initially thought because you can only end up with velocity in two adjacent faces - any acceleration in any other face reduces your existing velocity... Ok this is harder to explain than I thought without pictures.
ReplyDeleteIt did work and was fun!
Looks pretty similar to the vector movement rules in Full Thrust II Fleet Book 1? That used existing velocity which got recalculated each turn from measuring the distance and bearing from start position to end position.
ReplyDelete