I'm sure RPG nerds will be experts on this (and cringe at my descriptions), but for the rest of us wargamer purists, there's a few main RPG lines, focussing on:
Vampires
The most famous line. A lot of skirmish gaming potential between cabals/covenants/covens and their respective thralls (called ghouls - they drink vampire blood which makes them junkie servants but also gives them some powers) as the vampire world is very "political."
Werewolves
A bit like vice cops; they hunt supernatural entities and fight human spider/rat hybrids. I'm not sure I'm keen on the whole shaman/guardian/spirit warrior direction they've taken werewolves (don't they know werewolves are the daylight guardians of vampires who rebelled?), but it gives them a clear mission. Find bad things and rip them into little pieces.
Admittedly this isn't modern, but these werewolves know their mission in life: kill the distinctly non-sparkly Underworld vampires
Mages
This one has a lot of wargaming potential. Not only can mages fight other mages (or competing orders), but uppity mages can be hunted down by the inquisition-like Seers, who do not like mages who try to learn what man-was-not-meant-to-know. Which of course, is the whole purpose of being a mage. Poke the universe with a stick to discover arcane secrets to make a bigger stick to poke with.... I liked Shadowrun but this does away with the more corny elements.
There's other spin-off lines such as mummies (do they really need their own series?), monster hunters (bound to appear, given the quantity of supernatural vermin which populate the WoD), Frankenstein-esque promethians, revenants possessed by avenging spirits (geists), Fae changelings returned to the mortal world - I cringed a little at the Fae bit, modern urban elves being a favourite trope of bad romance writers. My favourite (unsurprising for regular blog readers) is the Fallen - bad angels looking for redemption (or not) which are for me a (little) less cliche than vampires and can wield some interesting powers which they power with Faith.
I'm currently digging through a few core books to see if there are any cool mechanics.
Oh my goodness....
RPG Writers Need to Get Their Head out of their butt Fluff
The core rulebooks make the most obscure wargames sets look like marvels of precision of clarity. They are buried amongst huge fluff passages usually hidden at the middle or back of the book. It's like the writers went "omigod I have this awesome universe come lookee come lookee!!!" and then "oh, I sorta chucked in some random mechanics, that you can play a game with... ....it if you insist"
Okay, I get that RPGs are mostly about fluff. But it's no excuse to lay out your book poorly or write incoherent rules. Since they inevitably write a dozen sourcebooks/supplements which are 99% fluff (and that's OK, because that's what they're supposed to do) why not devote a little more time and effort in making the core rules clear and easy to find?
There were plenty of interesting ideas - like making Faith a resource that Fallen angels need to manage/earn - might be a fun wargame mechanic - but reading the rules themselves gave me a migraine.
This is how I feel when I look for minis on the Reaper website...
Modern 28mm Pulp = The Cupboard is bare?
If miniatures sales drive rulebooks and vice versa, it's little wonder modern pulp hasn't got more traction. Copplestone, Hasslefree, and Heresy have modern/near sci fi collections, and I'm sure if you knew what you were looking for Reaper would be helpful. There are also older (usually smaller scale, and awkwardly sculpted) collections of civilian minis buried amongst the lines of older British manufacturers. But there isn't exactly one-stop shops like for sci fi or historicals - you have to dig and mix-and-match. Which (for me, in Australia) = prohibitive postage.
I was actually looking into this five years (sheesh) back, here's my blog post on it: http://dawnofthelead.com/2009/07/26/fangs-fur-fashion-and-firearms/
ReplyDeleteHeh. Your link has pretty much every model I've looked at... ...not much has changed in 5 years...
DeleteI have some Black Tree/Black Hat(?), Artizan pulp gents in suits and some stuff from Rezolution which would also work. Some of the Foundry(?) gangsters would work as well. EM4 has some near-future stuff.
I'm considering using Eureka moderns in NBC suits for Blade-esque vampire special forces....
I've been thinking about a game like this for years. The miniature range is limited at most.
ReplyDeleteFor vampires anything works (they look like humans) but the werewolves are seriously lacking.
Wild West Exodus has some big indian werewolves that could do the trick though. Maybe confrontation's wolfen, but they have some ridiculous weapons.
Ruleswise I have some ideas but I tend to fall in the too complex side of things, like using bystanders to camoflage yourself, werewolves shapeshifting during play, the imposible balance between werewolves and vampires (as written by White Wolf), the non-fighting powers to represent WW vampires as they deserve, and so on.
My other concerns are about which White Wolf's universe use as fluff. The Old World of Darkness is iconic (and has the Fallen, which I love too), but the New World of Darkness is much more streamlined.
"For vampires anything works (they look like humans) but the werewolves are seriously lacking. "
Delete.....I was kinda the opposite; werewolves can use any model (plus there is plenty of wolf-form stuff - even 15mm has a few choices); but there's not that many trenchcoat vampires (or "elegant" humans) - Foundry Street violence and a few Haslefree and Heresy homages.
With a few slight mods these figs could be useful for this genre
Deletehttp://shop.eastridingminiatures.co.uk/slicks-89-c.asp
That's a cool find! I've seen them before but didn't know where they came from. The corporate thugs/assassins etc might be useful and at $2 a mini they are affordable if P&P is reasonable...
DeleteMost people don't know this, but the 2nd edition Werewolf book (the one with the claw mark in the cover) has rules for fighting battles on hex maps.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was a kid, I ran the White Wolf system for some skirmish games actually and had a good time, though it was obviously a bit clunky. The dice mechanics are a bit heavy.
Cutting down on the dodge and soak rolls by making them automatic deductions, instead of dice pools, goes a long way.
Much respect for anyone who found the WoD playable, let alone as a minis game :-0
DeleteThe Underworld trope/verse/setting is I think superb but I too thought more about a gang styled game for a more Dresden file verse where magic and witches also exist. My initial thought was to perhaps use In Her Majesty's Name as the engine as it already has a bunch of powers and skills and an eminently modifiable stats with a point system.
ReplyDeleteFor Werewolves, have a look at Westwind's Secrets of the Third Reich German section. They might be what you are looking for.
"For Werewolves, have a look at Westwind's Secrets of the Third Reich German section. They might be what you are looking for."
Delete....I have both the WWW2 Mondhunden or whatever, plus the ones from their newer steampunk game. Reaper have some scary big werewolves I'm considering as well.
I was very happy with those SoTR one, and very happy with how they came out. The trousers could easily be done up a civilian clothes
Deletehttp://tasmancave.blogspot.com/2010/05/jager-wulfpack.html
PS the new "Witch Hunter" movie may also be of inspiration
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky4sXEz520Y
Heh. That's what kickstarted it, along with the release of X-COM 2.
DeleteYour enthusiasm is, as always, contagious. Damn you!
DeleteAs usual, the weird synchronization of ideas. I checked, though. Mum said I didn't have any ginger-headed siblings adopted out...
DeleteStrange aeons would make a good rule set they have lots of monster stats for werewolves vampires wizards and mummies
ReplyDeleteHmm. I'll have a look but I always pigeonholed them in the classic 1920s-40s pulp (Cthulhu etc) which is quite well represented for rule-sets
Delete"There were plenty of interesting ideas - like making Faith a resource that Fallen angels need to manage/earn - might be a fun wargame mechanic "
ReplyDeleteCall of Cthulu and Strange Aeons do something similar in reverse, with Insanity Points and Black Marks respectively. I like the sound of the more positive mechanic of Faith Points though, particularly in a campaign setting. Presumably you would loose them for particularly nasty encounters or failures too...
I think the 7TV fantasy rules (the ones I slated for being overpriced) had a faith mechanic of some sort. I'll have to see if I can add something similar to Middlehiem.
DeleteI actually have the official World of Darkness miniatures that were released... way back. I guess I could put them to good use. Or possibly ebay.
ReplyDeleteI think Ral Partha did them. While googling their sight, I came across their Blighthaven line - basically their beautiful Demonworld 15mms repacked into not-Mordhiem warbands.
DeleteWould be great for those doing Frostgrave on a budget. The Demonworld 15s are old, but still a benchmark for 15mm design.
Great post! I recently had the same idea and now desperately try to find all my old World of Darkness-stuff. Already as a kid, I hated the system and even went to such lenths as writing a shorter version where anything was solved with a d10+trait+skill roll :)
ReplyDeleteI had this idea, btw, through this fantastic 15mm miniature-series, complete with WoD-vampires and Vaticane hunters:
http://www.fighting15sshop.co.uk/15mm-173-c.asp
Rebel Minis seems to have some excellent Crinos-Werewolves which I need to order, and I have thought that a lot of the Zombie-Hunters (in 15mm) could actually be converted very easily into Vampire hunters.
I've no thoughts about figures, I'm afraid, but I was wondering about the viability of Fear and Faith for rules. I bought a set recently, along with Mutants and Death Ray Guns, before becoming aware, primarily via this blog, that the SoBaH system is not well regarded for modern periods, which is why I've subsequently held off from buying Flying Lead. I am now looking into the sets by Zombiesmith, such as Songs of Our Ancestors, which are derived from Flying Lead, but have more detail, and apparently make a lot more sense with vehicles, but they don't cover horror.
ReplyDeleteAny thoughts and ' or clarifications would be appreciated.
Yes, whilst I recommend stock SoBH as a fun change of pace, I wouldn't particularly recommend the missile-focussed versions. I can't recall my exact reasons (my SoBH craze was a few years back) but it loses simplicity without being (imo) particularly suited for the missile-centric era.
DeleteOther options include Chaos in Carpathia, and Savage Worlds (which works out of the box but has detailed horror supplements if you want more). Most pulp rules have some horror element included. There's also that 1930s era Cthulhu game I can't remember the name of (but reviewed somewhere).
I've been playing my own house rules, which is a sure sign that nothing appeals (as I am lazy and prefer to use and criticize others' work rather than do myself)
If your reference to an unnamed Cthulhu game isn't meant ironically, I'd assume you mean the RPG Call of Cthulhu, but there are a lot more now than when that appeared, including Trail of Cthulhu, and a source book intended for Savage Worlds (though published by a third party - names forgotten in both cases). Otherwise, there's Achtung Cthulhu, and World War Cthulhu, which like Call Of, seems to have a variant for every decade of the last century, as well as SF options, with more no doubt on the way. Useful information seems hard to find, though I was seriously put off Achtung Cthulhu by the absurd prices for the books (£45 for The Fate Guides to the Secret War - a softcover). It has a good looking range of figures, though, all of the Weird World War II variety, and thus, other than the Mythos Creatures, not restricted to Lovecraftian horror. If interested, see
ReplyDeletehttp://www.northstarfigures.com/list.php?man=174&cat=428&page=1
I'm not sure how compatible these are with other ranges, such as West Wind, or DarkSon Designs, but they are nominally 28mm.
I actually took a walk to my games room and the title that eluded me was "Strange Aeons."
DeleteOn the RPGs-are-overpriced theme, the PDF prices for almost any are insane. $20-$25 up to sometimes $40(!) for a digital file! And that's supposed to be the cheap option! (Not to mention you end up buying supplements etc which have similar pricing)
I've also remembered the name of the Savage Worlds Cthulhu setting - Realms of Cthulhu. (Actually, I think I saw a reference to it in another post. What's worse - from the point of view of failing memory - is that I own it.)
ReplyDeleteI agree about overpriced... well, everything, but as someone who has little use for digital files - which, to my mind, need to be printed out to be useful - I object to paying anything. I've just downloaded some freebies from Wargames Vault, but reconsidered my impulse to buy The Battlefield, today's special offer at $3, because it's available in print from Amazon.
The Achtung Cthulhu! book, however, beggars belief (quite apart from the fact that I have no idea what it does). £45 (FORTY-FIVE ENGLISH POUNDS) for a softcover book!!?!! I can only assume it's part of an underhand scheme by Games Workshop's Black Ops division to make their prices look reasonable. Come to that, I suspect GW itself is a front for Cthulhu.
"Come to that, I suspect GW itself is a front for Cthulhu."
DeleteI always thought Cthulhu was more benign that that....
You are probably right, though we mustn't keep knocking old GW, should we, considering how much it has done for...erm, GW shareholders.
ReplyDeleteFurther evidence for the Cthlhu defence is the popularity of Cthulhu plushies, though I personally would not take one to bed with me.
I'd also like to make an argument for Cthulhu being vastly over-represented in wargaming.
DeleteConsidering its relative obscurity in the mainstream compared to WoD-style vamps/werewolves - it has at least as many rulebooks devoted to it (and definitely more miniature lines).
I have heaps of fish-man, cultists and cowled ones from multiple manufacturers but I can barely find a single non-fantasy vampire, bar occasional one-off novelty sculpts from small boutique companies.
I'm not quite sure what a 'non-fantasy vampire' might be, but I think I'm worried.
ReplyDeleteI noticed that Blue Moon Manufacturing has a set of WWII leaders as zombies, so perhaps blood-sucking versions might also be feasible.
Speaking of BMM, I am gratified to see that the rule books are available from Old Glory UK, thus providing a means of bypassing the ludicrous overseas postage, but I'm afraid that doesn't help you antipodeans.
With reference to the over-representation of Cthulhu in wargaming, I can not possibly contest this. The WWII board game Heroes of Normandie includes big C (though not in my copy - probably a Kickstarter incentive). Furthermore, the forthcoming follow-up Shadows over Normandie goes the whole hog and concentrates on battles between US Rangers and cultists, as well as some of the Great Old Ones. The lesson - Cthulhu sells.
The over-representation goes beyond wargaming, of course. A couple of days ago while browsing eBay I encountered a BluRay entitled Call Girl of Cthulhu, a title of genius to rival Teenage Hooker Became a Killing Machine - and probably an equally lousy film, but at this point the quality of the product is almost irrelevant. Sex sells, of course, but when combined with Cthulhu the combination is likely to prove irresistible.
"Sex sells, of course, but when combined with Cthulhu the combination is likely to prove irresistible."
DeleteExcuse me while I go and poke out my mind's eye.
What is it with tentacles?
(Non-fantasy vampire = one devoid of the usual ornate elf-like armour with lots of spiky bits that could be used plausibly for non-medieval/fantasy settings - i.e. anything that is not a dark elf rip-off)